I must admit that I have been wrong in my understanding of the word 'church'. I have for all of my christian life taught that we should distinguish the various usages of this word. I often talked about the Irish words/ phrases 'teach on pobail' and 'pobail dé' to show the difference. 'Teach on pobail' means the house of the people and 'pobail dé' means the people of God. So I encouraged believers to distinguish between these two meanings. We are the church we are not a building- but people. Of course when ever anyone said church I would automatically add building, when they were referencing the building. For instance see that church- I would interrupt and say you mean church building don't you. So all of my believing life I have insisted that in my presence you do this because I wanted to reinforce the fact that we are a living body and not dead stones.
Anyway
I recently done a talk at a conference in the USA - Searching Together- with Jon Zens and my subject was the word Ekklesia- its meaning. However in the NT translations ( except for Tyndale and maybe one other) it is translated 'church' So I delved in a bit further and found the following interesting bits of knowledge.
The word Ekklesia has no relation whatsoever to the word 'church', in fact it means assembly or congregation or better still the asembley of the Lord ( referencing the OT use of qahal translated in the Septuagint as ekklesia. In Matthew Jesus indicating that He was replacing the OT congregation of the Lord states 'I will build MY congregation'
The etymology of the word church however is what shook me. It came into usage in 300+ AD when the house where the believers met was called 'church'. The word comes from two greek words Kurios and Oikos meaning Lord's house. It was used by the now very institutionalised religious to name the institution and buildings. So in reality the word 'church' does mean the buildings and by extension the 'institutions' . When with the discovery of printing the bible was translated into German the word Kirch was used to translate 'ekklesia'. Again this was the word that described those involved with and the actual institution of the religious, the priests and, bishops and popes and the political power structures that had involved over the previous centuries.
Tyndale when he started translating the bible into English translated ekklesia as congregation. This was a mistake, the establishment came down on him like a tonne of bricks. And he had to flee and hide most of the time he was involved with translating the scriptures. He finally gave his life and was hung and burned. A year later his work was released under the title Matthew's Bible BUT it had been altered to suit the institution to keep their power structures in place. The word ekklesia was now once again 'church'. King James insisted that the word church be uses of the Greek word ekklesia in the King James version of 1611. He laid down various stipulations about the translation and this was one of them.
So the word 'church' which has no biblical basis whatsoever was placed in the NT to maintain the powerful institution of the religious at this time.
The question is why with the increase of scholarship in this area and the reality that the word ekklesia means community WHY is it still been translated by the word 'church' which is a bastard word of human construction. For example we have many words that we use to describe the fair sex,
babe
dish
boo
honey
bitch
and many more you can fill the rest yourself, as I am sure you have some local varieties. However I do not imagine that you would translate any passage in the scriptures with any of the above.
In the beginning God created males and babes, ...mmmm I don't think so. Babes should be silent in the ekklesia.....mmmm I don't think so. BUT WHY NOT?
Because even though we know these words are commonly used of women they ae not in the scripture and also they are power words created to subjugate women or describe them in purely sexual terms. In other words they are offensive and are inappropriate in transltion. BUT the word 'church' is an inappropriate word also BUT is still in there and loving it.
Doug overexposed
looking back to go forward
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4 comments:
Amen, brother Doug.
I am a relatively new Christian and have recently discovered the full length of how the true ekklesia has been split and divided through church organizations. I am planning on writing a small flyer to hand out in my neighborhood to look for people who are interested in coming together in homes to be the called out people we should be. Can I use some of your words?
sincerely,
pete
great move to adapt to the truthas it relaly is, I did hear the word Circe etc, also and wondered about the esoteric connections? onthe circe half of the word why that? of the king, you would like reading P.G.S. HOPWOOD THE RELGIOUS EXPERIENCE OF THE PRIMITIVE CHURCH, he mentions and discusses those terms and practices, into all a living relaitonship not religious ritual.
The early body before it got compromised as a political gym, was merely an ekkelsia, discused as is aramanic terms used by jesus, as chaber dealing with what Jesus called the disciples, or chathauh which is purly a relational word,aramaic best conveys the connection, Connection and the knowing what it is to know, the amzing terms is found in Angerbert's book dealing with the early ekklesia in one chapter as he speaks of organized church involvment in it, when things started to drift, eluded to this "they exchanged the revelatory for the gnosis" this is where we see the a drift, I think greek knowledge passion got in here, reducing the supernatural of God into the philosophical of man, thought and practice, form of learning ,verses faith and a personal connection, the ascent of intellectualism now sets in, verses a relationship, "by which to better teach faith", quoting them, issues of platonic mixes, come up here,.
I think translators should abnadon the bad terms rapidly. The body needs to take to it;s personal repossibilities to mature, and not go through others to do so. The whole body is gifted and given the Spirit by which to know truth from error.
Ekklesia, By Hopwood I would say is "they all came with something to bring, he could not understand why we're stuck,to bring" the manifestations of the Spirit as to their building one another.
Elders mature as much as possible was not as hiearachy wise but as guides, servants and we are to respect them, as elders,, nor should they be tailored after the business world,or pagan systems, or our post shopping attitudes, but as truth seekers, the gathering was to share and to experience, learn from each other,, the lord in their presence, as one body, and met togetehr, the word of God came through any one of them as the Spirit led to share,
Very different over the present lecture hall settings.
Though some of that did take place but as a rule I do not see it as always as it is today,nor is the assembly ever a building but the temple are the people, that's all of us, undivided? why I took it so serious.
Your honesty will lead you to be rich in Christ, why I shared a few places to look,it;s a joy to share. I hope this comes through ok,we are all to discern.
Enjoy Hopwood it;s is quite eye opening, Barclay mentions this in his book on 1 Corinthians as well...why? comes up..lover to all let us not be hateful ever but we are to be truthful, and seek it always over distortions, ,love comes with knowledge.blessings to you and your search,
narrowway
thanks
great move to adapt to the truthas it relaly is, I did hear the word Circe etc, also and wondered about the esoteric connections? onthe circe half of the word why that? of the king, you would like reading P.G.S. HOPWOOD THE RELGIOUS EXPERIENCE OF THE PRIMITIVE CHURCH, he mentions and discusses those terms and practices, into all a living relaitonship not religious ritual.
The early body before it got compromised as a political gym, was merely an ekkelsia, discused as is aramanic terms used by jesus, as chaber dealing with what Jesus called the disciples, or chathauh which is purly a relational word,aramaic best conveys the connection, Connection and the knowing what it is to know, the amzing terms is found in Angerbert's book dealing with the early ekklesia in one chapter as he speaks of organized church involvment in it, when things started to drift, eluded to this "they exchanged the revelatory for the gnosis" this is where we see the a drift, I think greek knowledge passion got in here, reducing the supernatural of God into the philosophical of man, thought and practice, form of learning ,verses faith and a personal connection, the ascent of intellectualism now sets in, verses a relationship, "by which to better teach faith", quoting them, issues of platonic mixes, come up here,.
I think translators should abnadon the bad terms rapidly. The body needs to take to it;s personal repossibilities to mature, and not go through others to do so. The whole body is gifted and given the Spirit by which to know truth from error.
Ekklesia, By Hopwood I would say is "they all came with something to bring, he could not understand why we're stuck,to bring" the manifestations of the Spirit as to their building one another.
Elders mature as much as possible was not as hiearachy wise but as guides, servants and we are to respect them, as elders,, nor should they be tailored after the business world,or pagan systems, or our post shopping attitudes, but as truth seekers, the gathering was to share and to experience, learn from each other,, the lord in their presence, as one body, and met togetehr, the word of God came through any one of them as the Spirit led to share,
Very different over the present lecture hall settings.
Though some of that did take place but as a rule I do not see it as always as it is today,nor is the assembly ever a building but the temple are the people, that's all of us, undivided? why I took it so serious.
Your honesty will lead you to be rich in Christ, why I shared a few places to look,it;s a joy to share. I hope this comes through ok,we are all to discern.
Enjoy Hopwood it;s is quite eye opening, Barclay mentions this in his book on 1 Corinthians as well...why? comes up..lover to all let us not be hateful ever but we are to be truthful, and seek it always over distortions, ,love comes with knowledge.blessings to you and your search,
narrowway
thanks
AMEN, enjoy seeing the truth pursued, onw has to ask why anyone would have selected Circe to start with, unless their were connections to the dark nature of the name? what gets me is the reluctance to make the changes now the whole thing is in the open, 'get rid of the titles and economic traps associated with structures created for the sake of power or wealth? would that not be fair and truthful? why not? what will jesus say to us one day?
My prayer is those who know will change by a relationship which was intended to all of us one for another undivided? love to all.
Imagine much done may show up barren in the end? 1 Corinth 3,
Muslims saved by dreams while the west has denied the Spirit doing anything without our permission, based theology, God who is Spirit, what on earth are we thinking?
I was amazed to hear them saved and with so little info, praise God he is saving them unto himself, out side the west micromanaging his work.
1 peter1-12 NEB translation, love to all of you seeking out the real truth. narrowway 2011
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